Interview with Matt Kindt, Part 1 of 2

Matt Kindt — a St. Louis, MO-based graphic designer, illustrator, teacher and cartoonist — received acclaim for his comics from the very start; his graphic-novel debut, Pistolwhip, with writing and layout assistance by Jason Hall, made Time's Ten Best Graphic Novels of the 2001 list. Kindt's been nominated for several industry awards, and his design work for Alan Moore's and Melinda Gebbie's Lost Girls garnered a Harvey. However, with the success of his graphic novel Super Spy in 2007 — a success partly due to its partial online publication, formatted so that it could be downloaded and read on the PSP — he is only now able to devote the majority of his time to his comics, to the benefit of those who like their "pirates, detectives [and] femme fatales" starring in intricately plotted, literary thrillers and delineated in sumptuous brushwork.

Kindt's oeuvre thus far consists of two different universes, both roughly set in the 1940s: Pistolwhip, with Jason Hall, and Super Spy. The Pistolwhip series is comprised of the graphic novels Pistolwhip, which introduces noir-detective wannabe Mitch Pistolwhip and the femme-fatale-in-training Charlie Minks, the single-issue circus-themed Mephisto and the Empty Box and Pistolwhip: The Yellow Menace, in with Pistolwhip and Minks tangle with multimedia superhero Jack Peril and his counterpart, the Fredric Wertham-inspired Roderik Loom (PWTYM even includes an injury-to-the-eye motif in its deconstruction of the comic-book genre). 2 Sisters and Super Spy are the first two graphic novels set in the Super Spy universe. In 2 Sisters, Elle, an ambulance driver during World War II, falls into espionage work after the death of her lover: readers find out, however, that all of her actions are ultimately motivated by her relationship to her sibling Anna. In Super Spy (which can be read straight through or in chronological order by following the order of the dossier numbers rather than the chapters)[1], Kindt follows the semi-realistic fates of a cadre of WWII spies: characters crossover between the two books.

The following was intended to be a profile, but accidentally turned into an interview instead.

Background:
Do you have any formal art training?
Yes — I graduated in 1995 with a BA in Fine Art from Webster University in St. Louis.

Other than a few creative writing classes in college, no.

Movies in general: specifically, classic noir from the 1940s, French New Wave (Breathless, etc.). I watch a lot of movies. Also books — novels mostly and some non-fiction, depending on what project I'm working on — I try to read related books even if it's not a direct connection. A book I'm working on now is set in Paris so I'm reading the book The Discovery of France which covers the geographic evolution of all of France — not directly related but does give me a lot of good background and history that ends up floating around in the back of my head while I'm writing.

It's made me much more aware of my process. What used to be an unconscious thing, now I'm very aware of. It's helped though — streamlined my process in a way, now that I see what works and doesn't — such as writing full scripts when I don't need to (because I'm illustrating it as well) — things like that. Stuff that seems kind of basic, but when I'm into it, I'm not thinking "process," I'm just thinking story and how to break it down, etc.
How do you balance your workload between designing, illustration and comics?
It used to be tough — paying jobs came first and that usually meant comics took the back burner — but Super Spy did really well this year and I'm at the first point in my life where I can say that 90 percent of what I'm working on now is comics. I take a few illustration jobs here and there and less design jobs, mostly because I just don't need to do them anymore — and I don't have time! I've got two big graphic novels due at the end of this year so I pretty much need to be doing two pages a day until Christmas.

It's small but friendly. Brian Hurtt, Cullen Bunn, Chris Samnee are good friends and we get together every once in a while and hang out at cons together and carpool: fun and convenient. A lot of us meet on Thursday nights to talk and draw — Kevin Huizenga and Dan Zettwoch are usually there and pizza and drinks are had!

I had written and done the art for Pistolwhip and showed it to Jason to get his thoughts and feedback. I'd sort of considered it a stand-alone story and he'd had some good ideas for extending it into a series. Initially we'd met online and got to talking about music and movies and things that we had in common. Eventually we met and I showed him Pistolwhip and we just started hatching plans after that. The Yellow Menace came out of those conversations and was largely Jason's idea for expanding the Pistolwhip characters.

I do a LOT of reading. I read fiction from the time period, non-fictional accounts of life in the 1940s and history in general. For Super Spy I did a lot of research into espionage and cryptography. I just try to soak up as much as I possible can and until it eventually just mixes around in my head and gives me ideas and whatnot. I also collect old photos from estate sales so I use those a lot for photo reference and inspiration.

In PW, you had more elaborate backgrounds and simplified character designs. In PWTYM, your backgrounds became looser, your character designs became tighter, and you experimented with more exaggerated angles when you framed your panels. What brought about these changes? What was the aesthetic or narrative purpose of the angles?

That's probably just my natural evolution as an artist. Truthfully, it's hard for me to go back and even look at those pages because I think (I hope) I've gotten better. I think I've always been a fan of strange angles and perspectives. A lot of it is simply because it's more fun to draw — but then I think the skewed perspective and angles also sort of fits the kind of stories I'm trying to tell. I find that I use those tricks a little better as I've gotten older — I try to key those kinds of things to the events in the story or to the character's state of mind.

I was in college and I just did a lot of research on how different artists work. I really think the creative process that a writer or artist goes through is as interesting as what they actually produce. No one works the same way, so I'm always reading behind-the-scenes interviews and things to get ideas on what would work for me. I'd been reading [Dave McKean's] Cages as it came out in the issues and I loved his line work and use of black. So eventually I just picked up a brush and started drawing Mitch Pistolwhip — before I even had his story. I use a brush every day now.

While I was in the middle of drawing Super Spy, I felt like I was really getting too tight with my brush and lines — I was getting almost nervous with the brush. I can't explain it. It was just a weird phase I was going through so I just started doing a bunch of life-drawings from live models every week and I would just use ink and a brush. No penciling — just ink and brush directly on paper. That really helped me — made me more confident and helped me see what I was drawing. That happened around the "Arabian Nights" chapters in the book and I think you can tell if you look close.
You keep a sketchbook? What is your process? (script, thumbnails, etc.?)
Well, my sketchbook is separate from my creative process to a degree. I keep sketchbooks and they are just pure drawings. I work in ink and watercolor and sometimes pencil alone but rarely. I have separate notebooks which end up being just loose-leaf binders or spiral notebooks or those moleskins and I just write down any and every idea as I get them — sometimes I'll do character sketches in those but for the most part those are just ideas written down so I don't forget.

I'm working on two graphic novels now simultaneously and it's forced me to get a bit more organized. I start out by writing longhand in my notebook and just describe the entire book from beginning to end. I write character's thoughts, the basic action, break down scenes and even describe some panels and "camera movements".

After that I go through and thumbnail the pages based on that hand-written script/description. I lay out all the pages and insert some dialogue and make additional story notes. This way the whole book is sort of visually done and I can "read" through it to see how it flows and revise things — adding pages or shifting scenes around before I pencil.

Then I pencil everything, usually in a really light colored pencil and then I'll read through it all again. Once that stage is done I'll go through with a dark pencil and tighten up the lines and then ink the whole thing. For Super Spy and my two new graphic novels, they're in full color, so I have an extra stage of painting (watercolor) the entire thing.

Some lettering like sound effects, I do by hand but the rest I do on the computer using Photoshop and Illustrator. (The Pistolwhip books and 2 Sisters were hand-lettered).

Just a little bit — to add some texture — are you talking about the pulp text pages? For those I think I used charcoal as well.

On what size paper do you compose? Did that change for Super Spy, which is in a smaller format that any of your previous graphic novels?

For the Pistolwhip books I worked on approximately 11"x17" pages and the same for 2 Sisters. For Super Spy, I wanted to do a little different format so I made the panels proportionate to the screen of the PSP so I could upload the individual panels as I went and you could read them online via the PSP or Top Shelf's website. So for Super Spy, each panel was a page — approximately 8" x 4" per panel. This ended up being very convenient as I was getting tired of being housebound all day every day so with the smaller format I could easily take the pages out to the local coffee shop and work. Being able to get out into the "real world" really kept me motivated to get the pages done.

I really like the industrial design of the period: cars, phones, architecture. And the clothes — everything is just fun to draw — and I think the brush and line-work that I use kind of fits the time period in a way — I love the old comics and illustrations from that period as well. Setting something in the '40s or '50s also makes the story a little more timeless to me. I don't have to draw blue-tooth headsets that will look outdated in five years and date the work. If I set it in the '40s then I can consciously date the work and have that extra control over how it's perceived.
In PW and PWTYM, your characters are clichés (obviously a conscious choice on your part) whose ponderings of issues of authenticity (the Human Pretzel's desire for "Real action. Real dialogue. Real life.") and escapism (while people read comics, crimes are committed) you constantly undercut as you remind the reader via metacommentary such as radio scripts, etc, that they're fictional constructs. What narrative purpose does this serve?
Pistolwhip books I think that was always kind of the joke and humor that we wanted to have. I wanted to tackle some important ideas and issues without being too serious and making the whole thing a drag.

No. I became a father while I was working on 2 Sisters (after PWTYM). If anything, having a baby made my work seem more urgent. It made me realize that I only have so many pages I'm going to be able to create in my lifetime, so I need to be very careful about what those pages are and how they look. I don't really think being a father has changed the kind of content that I put into my books. I'm not going to be doing a "how cute and fun it is to have a kid" kind of book. That said, being a father has giving me more insight into the idea of having a child (hopefully)! I have a character in Super Spy who is a mother and a spy and in a way that's kind of a stand-in for me. She kind of represents what it's like to have a child and try to get work done and balance those two parts of your life — although I'm only doing comics and she's saving the world with spy work!
You work with mixed media in your comics – you use radio scripts, pulp illustrations, etc. What does your work in other art forms bring to your comics, and vice versa?
I really am a fan of almost every medium. I like radio shows, painting, comic strips, movies, and television. So, for me, it's really fun to write a story and then let the story dictate what form it will take. I don't like it when that stuff is done to show off or just for the sake of something cool to look at. It ultimately only works if it's in service to, and advances the story.

Well, I'll give Jason credit for that one — I'm pretty sure he came up with that conceit. With PWTYM that was probably the closest I'd gotten to having a "supervillain". I really don't have a need to address superheroes and I think that re-thinking or re-imagining superheroes has been done so much that I don't feel like I need to go there. That said, I certainly still enjoy my superhero comics along with all the other genres. I think if you've grown up reading superhero comics (which you couldn't avoid in the 1970s) that's always going to be a part of you — a part of your formative years, so I don't think I'll every lose that. But at the same time (unless it's work for hire — I have an awesome Black Widow story idea) I can't see bringing another superhero book into a medium that is dominated by the genre.

I think that's the key — it's a lot easier to make a living doing superhero books in comics than anything else. There's just such a large built-in audience for it that it makes it easy. And I think that's why you see a lot if indy creators crossing over — because they had a love for it as a kid — and now, they can get a nice paycheck playing with the toys they had as kids and then go on to do the comics they really want to do.

That was a funny kind of idea we had because we'd put a lot of subliminal things in that book — some dirty drawings and whatnot that no one was going to ever find unless we put some clues somewhere. And it was also kind of an echo of the original Seduction of the Innocent book so it fit the theme.

Well, I think with the increased popularity of graphic novels in the mainstream, there's a new chunk of readers or are just becoming aware of the industry and there's a little bit of a natural curiosity — "say, where'd this new-fangled comic medium come from?" kind of thing. And maybe the embracing of the genre by some bigger named mainstream authors like Michael Chabon who have written some great books that address comics, their history and influence.

I went to San Diego as a complete unknown — never published anything and gave the Pistolwhip book to Top Shelf and about 10 or 15 other publishers. A week after I got home I got a call from Chris Staros and he said he wanted to publish the book just as it was. I'd given out full mock-ups of the book — perfect bound and everything. They wanted it just as is but with a new cover. Well, that was the first offer and I took it, because what are the chances you know? Then a week later I got a call from Slave Labor — they were interested in the book — and I had to decline because we'd already signed with Top Shelf. So in a way, it was easy, because there was no decision to be made.

Top Shelf has just been fantastic as a home — Chris and Brett [Warnock] were always really supportive of me and every project I've come up with so it's been nice to only stress and worry about what the next book is going to be about instead of worrying about who's going to publish it, etc.

Hm. It's easy for me to say it's my philosophy — and in a way it is, but if I hadn't spent 10 years as a designer, I don't know. I can't imagine spending a year on a book and then handing the art over to someone else to put together and package into who-knows-what. It's such a part of the process to me that I don't think I could ever give it up. I really think the entire package should be part of the experience. There are certainly good books out there with horrible design but you read them because you KNOW they're good books. I'm sure there are plenty more books out there with horrible designs and great insides but those books are harder to pick up and give a chance — it's human nature.

When I did 2 Sisters — I really wanted the book to be read from cover to cover — so the cover is really the first panel of the story and the back cover is the last panel — even the inside covers are panels in the story. I wanted that book to have a real flow — no captions and no scene changes artificially so the cover design was integral to the concept.

With Super Spy I wanted to have a little more fun with the cover — to make it part of the spy game — so I have some hidden messages in the descriptive text for the book and if you hold the front cover open to a light bulb there's a little more secret imagery. That isn't necessarily integral to the story — but I tried to make is something more than a pretty package. Something that makes you think a little bit — a little time bomb that you miss the first time but you pick it up a year later and you're like "hey!"

Hm. That's a tough one. Offhand I don't really remember any sound in my books. I know that I'm not a big fan of sound effects. When I do use them I try to incorporate the sound into the art of the panel. I find that music is really hard to get into a book. It's hardly ever done effectively — the best example I can think of is Nick Bertozzi is an issue of his Rubber Necker comic that he gave me — can't remember what issue but he used a really neat visual representation of music and sound.

I don't really work on a nine-panel grid truthfully. Especially with Super Spy and the new books I'm working on — the pages are usually based on a three-panel horizontal grid — three stacked panels — then within those three panels I tend to split them up depending on the action of the story. As far as page layout goes, I really am not a fan of elaborate spreads and flowing sort of art. It's fun to look at but I think it tends to take you out of the story. Gene Colan has some fantastic layouts and I love to look at his art but I don't think it's great storytelling. Chester Brown's stuff on the other hand is great storytelling. And in Louis Riel for example, it's a six-panel grid throughout the entire book. The most boring layout ever but the storytelling is fantastic. I just read the commentary in the back of the book on New Frontier and Darwyn Cooke was saying how he'd used a similar three-panel horizontal grid all the way through. And until he said that, I hadn't even noticed. The story and art just sucks you in so completely that it's like the score on a movie — it works best if you don't notice it.

That said, I think smaller tighter panels tend to slow down the action and decompress time a little bit — where larger splashier pages create more emotion but also speed up the action — so the trick is to use a good combination of both in service of the story.

World-building to me always feels like a genre thing. For Super Spy, I was setting it in the real world for the most part. Maybe an odd take on it and stylized but still something that didn't need to have an elaborate Lord of the Rings Silmarillion companion book. Pistolwhip was a little stranger and had some world-building aspects to it. There was a whole secret society thread underlying it all that we briefly touched on and had a whole backstory worked out for. I think the world-building is important for the creator but I think it can be a little bit of a trap because you've created all this great unseen stuff so you want to show it off — let the reader know things that might not necessarily be integral to the story.

1. I find the chronological method to be the more emotionally satisfying, because it's easier to keep track of the character arcs that way.

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